Tuesday, August 16, 2005

Recidivist Journals: The police LIED about de Menezes

This is disgusting. I think it was pretty clear (to those of us with brains, anyway) that the police seriously fucked up when they killed this poor guy. But every little piece of new information makes it look less like a terrible case of mistaken identity and over reaction, and more like something that I can only describe as cold blooded murder. Go read Mark's take on it, because it makes me sick to think about it, anymore. And not just that it happened, but that so many people were so quick to say that the police did nothing wrong, despite all evidence to the contrary, and with the result being an innocent man dead for absolutely no reason.

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Chris Howard said...

Wow. I have to agree with recidivist. I would rather have heard that the guy actually pulled a gun or something, and the police were responding appropriately. If the account did happen as he says, then it's just government sanctioned murder.

Me4Prez said...

I would have liked to heard anything but what is coming out. It is hard to defend fighting terrorism when you shoot first and make-up answers later

Christiana said...

But it's NOT government sanctioned murder! It was a clear mistake on a number of levels.

And I'll cop to it. I've changed my mind. The first version of the story sounded to me like it had been a tragic mistake but that the police had acted properly under the circumstances.

As more details have come out, it's now clear that a number of intelligence blunders plus panicky trigger-happy police resulted in death for this poor man. It's a terrible tragedy, and they should identify all responsible parties and discipline them according to their relative blame.

That said, the mere fact that this IS being investigated and that the truth IS coming out just goes to show that this was NOT government sanctioned murder, it was a terrible mistake based on poor information and insufficient training.

TBLJ said...

This is awful and further proof of the harm of racial profiling.
Thanks to the link to recidivist.

John Howard said...

It is murder. Whether or not it's government sanctioned or not depends on whether and how the perpetrators are prosecuted.

Robert Bayn said...

Messed up intellegence that leads to innocent people dying, god i can't imagine why people thought the government might be involved in that!

Recidivist said...

"the mere fact that this IS being investigated and that the truth IS coming out just goes to show that this was NOT government sanctioned murder"

I doesn't really tell us that at all.

This has all come out through a leak at a time when all official channels were preparing us for the fact that the CCTV evidence wasn't there and that the police line on this was probably true.

The fact that someone on the investigation saw the need to leak this is a good indication that someone at a very high level was trying to bury this.

Chris Howard said...

When I said government sanctioned, I was talking about this part -

We also know for a fact that the police had agreed in advance that they would not challenge him [Hussain Osman, the guy they thought he was] prior to executing him.

Re-reading it, I see that you can't tell from this account if the officers had agreed to that on their own, or if they had the ok of higher officials. So I don't know that it was government sanctioned.

However, whether this guy was Osman or not, I don't see how police can justify shooting anyone without provocation. I do understand that makes it more dangerous for the good guys, as the bad guys don't have any such compunctons, but that's what makes them the good guys. Like John said in his post from today, what about trials and due process?